This sylphen silhouette may keep us in the dark about Miss Debrett's true identity but the coltish limbs gracing the Regency chair quietly whisper the pedigree of the upper classes.
The filly may wear short skirts but she has high standards.
On Self Deprecation
Self deprecation is a trait that permeates British culture. It is a national characteristic - evident in a sense of history that, possibly uniquely, dwells on "glorious" failures (The Charge of The Light Brigade, Dunkirk, Scott's race against Amundson). It is also a valued personality trait, which people find engaging and - according to the latest anthropological research - sexually attractive.
The British have a horror of what they call "blowing your own trumpet" and are deeply averse to earnestness, pomposity and self importance. Statements that in another culture, would simply be attributed as confident expressions of self esteem are misinterpreted in Britain as boastful and self-aggrandising.
On the Stiff Upper Lip
The British Empire was built on the deadpan, the clenched jaw, the occasional polite smile. Adversity was something to be confronted with stoicism and sang-froid - there are numerous apocryphal tales of the phlegmatic reaction of Britons to disaster. The imperturbable refusal to reach histrionically to tragedy and disaster came into its own at times of national crisis - the terrible losses of the Great War, the devastation of the Blitz. And when the cards are really down, the British show an implacable tendency to keep calm and carry on.
On Ostentation
The British are said to be resentful of success and comfortable with failure. It is scarcely surprising then that ostentation was never a quality that was admired or emulated. Discretion about wealth and worldly success was the order of the day. There is an underlying suspicion that being flash with the cash is a terrible giveaway; what it reveals is that the cash is a newly acquired novelty, not a birthright.
Do you have a manners bete noire? Mine is tardiness;oh and show offs, windbags and general bores.
Wow! How is it done? Is it genetic? In the tea? Bangers?Mash?Beans? Due to the relative lack of central heating? Or the damp clime? The antiquated but not irrelevant class system?
ReplyDeleteYou forgot to mention the quirky sense of humour (I'm an American but I can spell like a former Loyalist). The devotion to Mr. Bean and Monty Python--for which the world will always be grateful. The sharp words that can separate flesh from bone with a sentence and make one's eyes water if even just a bystander to the event.
Cloak a British woman with form and figure like yourself Tabitha and I can't quite figure out how the British have lost the keys to the Empire!
No wonder certain English people give me looks of disapproval. It must be the earnestness. Or maybe it's my chucks -- converse sneakers. A certain English lady at church always looks disapproving at my feet when I'm wearing the chucks, not to church (though I've thought of it!) but to social meetings. As a Californian transplanted from New York 20 years ago, I've had to get used to tardiness. You have to go with the flow here. Wind bags are the worst. I also dislike motor mouths -- people who never shut up, never listen.
ReplyDeleteOur colonial roots leave us with the impression that earnestness and pomposity are fully within the British reach; we are not disabused by an avowed distain for self-deprecation. As for ostentation, we are well-served by our neighbours to the south. But we are insecure, anxiety-ridden Canadians, which prevents us from ever saying this.
ReplyDeleteTardiness, with all my clocks? Why no I'm never late!!!!
ReplyDeleteMy culture just kind of appropriated yours. Or tried. The self-deprecation part didn't survive the Revolution very well.
ReplyDeleteSnobbishness. Shallowness. Sheer bad manners – such as those found in people who say disparaging things about others without really knowing them. (The height of rudeness.) People who judge others on first glance. (Seriously? Do they really think they're better?) And generally insular, narrow-minded, pompous little individuals. Usually they haven't travelled widely. You can always tells the people who have travelled and taken the time to engage with people outside their own cultures / class / social scene / fashion boundaries. They're the really well-mannered, respestful - and interesting – ones. Also those who are unprofessionalism, inefficient, lazy and just plain mean.
ReplyDeleteSorry. Had to get that off my chest!
I truly agree with you on so many of those points. I'm always really surprised at how someone's narrow mindedness can seem so obviously connected to their lack of travel and exposure to elements outside of their immediate daily surroundings.
DeleteI just looked up "earnestness" in Watching the English: the hidden rules of English behaviour By Kate Fox and now see the "gushing" connotation of earnestness. The New Oxford American Dictionary has:
ReplyDeleteadj. resulting from or showing sincere and intense conviction: an earnest student | two girls were having an earnest conversation.
That's the sense I meant in reference to myself -- sincerity. Kate Fox says with the English, sincerity is allowed, earnestness isn't.
@Duchesse, I have met a few self-important Canadians over the years, and have also meant some humble Americans.
For me it's boors, thin-skinned overly sensitive flowers and self-satisfied types ( an Unholy Trinity of Thuggies, Huggies and Smuggies) But why stop there? Anyone who tries to impose their religious beliefs on me, dull, frowny, pseudo intellectuals who think this is what makes them special, and, to show how petty I am - people who hold their cutlery as if they are about to shovel snow or write! Not forgetting the prim, the proper and the perpetually po-faced. Thanks Tabs, I'll be up all night now.....
ReplyDelete@Sulky Kitten, you really crack me up. I have to start reading your blog.
ReplyDeleteAh! You have just confirmed what I always thought: I sound horribly arrogant on my blog to most Brits. Self deprecation is SUCH the norm I found over there. But at the same time there is so much pride in what the nation as a whole has accomplished. Well, for the Scots at least. That Scottish pride is impermeable.
ReplyDeleteIt's so dreich and slaister, it has to be impermeable!
DeleteThe "pigeon toes pose" might have its origin in self deprecation, now that I think about it ...
Deletehttp://ratherthanfacebook.blogspot.com/2011/11/pointless-posture.html
Oh my there are plenty of bores in my family....
ReplyDeleteas a Canadian I am always apologizing for things I didn't even do!
Braggers are a rather distasteful lot.
We Aussies share some characteristics passed down from our (historically at any rate) British forebears. One that differs, and that I despise however, is that in Australia we constantly "go for the underdog". Must have something to do with the bushranger/ convict past, but it now means that you have no chance of winning "Australia's Got Talent" or any other such show that requires the public to vote if you can sing magnificently and are incredibly physically attractive. You'll win if you're ugly, talentless and tone deaf, and have a hard luck story to tell. We also suffer "Tall poppy syndrome" - anyone successful is cut down to size. Unfortunately displays of ostentation seems to be becoming the norm. Witness the rise and rise of the logo.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteDefinitely braggarts of any kind but especially someone who refers to himself as a "Renaissance man" or says (in a fake self-deprecating tone), "my friends call me a Renaissance man" - I can't run away fast enough from such a person!
ReplyDeleteI always have to work hard to suppress the giggles when I meet that type.
Deletelove this post--a boring dinner partner is the worst! hate when I'm seated next to some wind bag that talk about his golf game all night--usually end up drinking too much just to get through the night have a great week, xBarbara
ReplyDeletehampton hostess just nailed it for me. nothing worse and it always happens to me. no wonder i hate dinner parties.
ReplyDeletei think i have self-deprecating humor (at least i hope so) and everyone is always telling me that i need to improve my self confidence. they don't get me.
I loathe balls, dinner parties and gala events for that reason.
DeleteI am very fond of the word Thank you.
ReplyDeleteI think the common consensus is that "thank you' are the two little words that make most of us very happy.
DeleteI completely agree!
DeleteI don't like mean people.
ReplyDeleteBoring I can handle. Mean. More Challenging.
People who stack dirty plates at my table. Or at theirs. Revolting.
Loud people.
ReplyDeleteAs a Brit living in the multi-cultural hell hole that is London (its not P.C. to be proud to be British), each day is filled to capacity with rude people. The whole world and his dog has a superiority complex! If you hold a door open for someone they won't say thank you (like FF I appreciate thank you), and if you drive anywhere it's like being in a Mad Max film. Like Heidi I loath logos plastered all over clothing. Like Sulky Kitten I hate to see anyone holding their cutlery like a pencil. Oh but the worst things for me are poor parenting: Children with no manners or respect for adults; Parents that let their children scream their bloody heads off, and women who loose all common sense, hearing and spacial awareness after giving birth. Men who think that they need to explain the internal workings of a car as if it were a pressure cooker, because as a woman your place is in the kitchen and your head's full of c*&t%$g 'cup-cakes'. Women who plaster themselves in diamonds like a Christmas tree, it's so unspeakably déclassé. The dumbing-down of everything, and the celebration of celebrity tosh. But the worst, the absolute worst, is being asked "How much...?". One never talks about money.
ReplyDeleteoh yes, the "how much" is SO rude. I always squirm and meekly respond, then kick myself afterwards and vow never to reply to a question like that again. I especially hate it if people start with "don't think me rude, but......" um, yes, you are asking a rude question, and you know it.
DeleteLike Rose I cannot stand loud people, people with an unjustified craving for recognition. And please, can anybody tell me what happened to child education? Everywhere I go there they are, screaming, rampaging children who neither have nor show some respect to adults in general, not just their own parents.
ReplyDeleteThis is fun - the comments are great! Like FF, I find a Thank You (and a Sorry when appropriate) go a long, long way. I am compulsively early, so people being late really annoy me. I also find irritating (although its not really a breach of manners) people who use needlessly complicated/antiquateed/professional words/language - e.g., retail outlet (oh, you mean shop?), or property (you mean my house?). I shall think of a few more examples. Finally I think its a bit off to let people who are uninvolved know you are in a bad mood, or ill - is this stiff upper lip? Just suck it up folks! (Coughs up lung). xxx
ReplyDeleteOh, oh I so agree with this one! I too hate those silly words (property for house etc.) Good one.
DeleteI detest when a 'thank you' isn't given or at worst a 'pardon me' when they are the ones that walked straight into your way and then they have the cheek to look at you and scowl. Or when there is a pram and it's so apparent that they need a bit more room to get by and no one moves over to let them through, they just carry on chit chatting!! I feel like blowing a horn to get them to pay attention. Children that run riot and their parents scream at them like crazies or do nothing at all. Kids walking around with their trackies on or jeans to their knees and never pronounce their words correctly - the dumbing down of everything is tedious!! The reality tv kind of people who get rich for nothing. I like the others don't like the labels all over the clothes either, so tacky. Snobbiness, ban manners, ill-dressing (one doesn't have to flashy, but dressed smartly) Stuck up people annoy me too or those that speak over you and down at you. One really has to be kind, but thick skinned to put up with all of this!! American people don't have a lot of manners either (I can say that being American) They are either stuck up, witchy, overly nice - to the annoying state or no manners at all. General manners are very much needed these days! xx
ReplyDeleteI value self-deprecation almost above all else; earnestness is to be abhorred - one of the reasons I cannot watch much political campaigning. I am not too proud to admit that I value a quick wit above all other personality traits, as I believe it an absolute necessity to get through all of life's important moments - first love, marriage, giving birth, death, etc. Oscar Wilde is a personal hero.
ReplyDeleteWhat cannot I not abide? I despise a smug individual. being a self-acknowledged flawed individual who is happy to point out her faults so you don't have to look to hard to find them, I am more and more puzzled by those individuals who just "have it right". Ugh!
LBF: language not befitting mixed company!
ReplyDeleteI'm with everyone on their pet peeves.
FF: I don't mind mean people, they are to be hated and despised, a sport in itself.
I cant stand people who offer advice when it has not been asked for. Who do they think they are? Or those that tell you how you are supposed to be feeling or not feeling. Whatever. Or the ones that ask impertinent questions, I remember someone saying to ask them "why do you want to know" as it often shuts them up.
ReplyDeleteI agree with so many that others have said.
cheers
Maia
You hit the nail right on the head. How true. I see these characteristics after settling down in the UK. Over in NZ, the Tall Poppy Syndrome is a widespread disease. You're doing well, gosh, it must be down to luck but never fear, it'll never last. My pet peeves are rudeness and arrogance. A little smile and thank you go a long way. As for arrogance, what goes up must come down and the reverse. It never hurts to be humble.
ReplyDeleteyou are always so negative about any kind of status or wealth, it comes across as envy and resentment.
ReplyDeleteAnon, you seem wildly confused about the British...To start with, there's a world of difference between status and wealth. That's why we have lower, middle and upper class, which has nothing whatsoever to do with money. Try these jolly good British Public Improvement Films, and get yourself a sense of humour dear:
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwmclIMqWMc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLgzxk7Rd-Q&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39qdhbkTko4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ivsb79-h90&feature=related
Curator - 'right on' about the sense of humor!
DeleteMy sister-in-law has a lovely trait: she is sincerely and genuinely happy for another's success or good fortune. She is also completely unable to understand envy in others. I think a little 'please' and 'thank you' go a long way, as does a desire to be helpful in small matters of everyday life: holding a door for someone whose arms are full, keeping an elevator open for someone who is approaching, or letting someone with one or two items ahead of you in line at the grocery store. Why not? Treating others as we wish to be treated isn't known as the golden rule for nothing. And if others don't respond in kind? Well, leave them to heaven.
ReplyDeleteThe loquacious bore and the old miser must be the biggest social sinners. Flash cash with his wad and the booming loud mouth I have learned to deal with (just take them with a pinch of salt).
ReplyDeletePS I saw what you said above about mean people but I think that they need to be given a jolly good wake up call - and be made to look at images of modern poverty in action - until they give in!!
ReplyDeleteCame back to enjoy the comments, and notice you have an anonymous heckler - how thrilling! I've always thought you were greatly in favour of status and wealth - I know I am! - perhaps Anon has misunderstood your tone! xxx
ReplyDeleteMrs E:I get emails calling me little snob of snobsville, I can't win!
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI'll go along with the Curator. I will add that I have had my fill of 'entitled' people - those who are fortunate and don't even stop to consider how fortunate they are; they just take it for granted and then blame others when Life doesn’t go their way. (Comes from having 'issues' with “Mr JW"’s former wife :) )
ReplyDeleteFaux Fuchsia is spot on about the importance of 'thank you.'
Anonymous- identify yourself! If you have something to say, why be ashamed of it? I might have more respect for your opinion if you were brave enough to publish your comments with an actual identity!
ReplyDeletePretension, which comes in so many flavors.
ReplyDeleteBullying and one-upmanship--although I admit the Stephen Potter oeuvre on the subject is hilariously definitive, I tend to be frustrated on behalf of others who are its targets.
Making virtues of small-mindedness, bigotry, ignorance, and selfishness, which seems to be an alarming trend in the States. This includes taking pride in not knowing which fork to use. And "Noblesse oblige" is a dangerous Socialist concept, apparently. Sigh...
Did anon mean to direct that at Tabitha? Possibly not, it would be good manners to give them the benefit of the doubt, perhaps they are blog novices like me!
ReplyDeleteThis is fascinating and has generated such heated debate, I love sulky kitten's 'thuggies, huggies and snuggies', I have never heard that before and it perfectly encapsulates the passive aggressive types who simper and sigh, always get their own way still claiming to be the victim.
There is a marked difference in the behaviour that I see here compared to London. It is just general kindness, but could be called manners, as a newbie, when I am in the local shop introductions are made if the other shopper lives near me. When driving through the villages we all slow down (this is partly self preservation since our cars are quickly familiar to the residents) ditto always letting people out in traffic. It's amazing how small things like this can make a better day.
There is a difference between manners and etiquette.
Manners produce kindness, friendship and are fruitful for both the giver and the recipient.
Etiquette is the snobby, petty maiden aunt who will forego manners in favour of etiquette to belittle and degrade and assert her superiority as this is all that she has.
A thought for further debate; etiquette, like religion, in a time that predated mass media, was developed primarily to surpress the masses. (too controversial?...How rude...sorry!)
~People who are all style and no substance, and expect others to pick up their slack.
ReplyDelete~Arrogance and Pretension. I work with one guy whom I have dubbed "His Arrogance", he is that bad.
~Bullies.
~People with no manners, and think it's hilarious when they have no manners.
~The dumbing down of everything.
~Selfish and 'entitled' people, and those who feign ignorance when confronted.
~Family members and Friends who routinely show up late for dinner parties, surprise parties, etc (after the guest of honour has already been 'surprised') and they never change their behaviour even when they know it annoys people.
~People who allow their children to behave like tyrants or little emperors in public and act like it's so cute.
~People who expect me to bow down to their pets when I visit their home and act so offended when I ask for little Blacky to please NOT jump on me.
~Everything Sulky Kitten said.
~Oh and let's not forget two-faced people!!
What an interesting post (and the little debate that it has sparked!) As a foreigner living in the UK for the past 7 years there is a lot that I find interesting about the culture and I think that it is true how divided the social classes are (I went to the University of St Andrews...). It is very similar to Mexico City where I grew up.
ReplyDeleteSigh, to be british born! I've been told I have a quivering upper lip, but that's about as close as I get...alas I'm but a nouveau americana with tarnished manners galore.
ReplyDeletexo Mary Jo
I find myself in agreement with many of the commenters: I despise people with that sense of entitlement, who feel the rules don't apply to them; those who loudly spout their political/religious views and assume we all agree with them; the pervasive dumbing-down and crudeness that seems to be everywhere (thanks, Jersey Shore!). I would like to say a word on behalf of my fellow Americans, however. We aren't all loud, self-important (yet earnest) braggarts!
ReplyDeleteOr is it bragging to say that I'M not like that? I am American, but clearly I'm culturally British. I do claim British ancestry on both sides of my family, some from way back in the 1700s, but also as recently as my great-grandparents. From them I learned to be modest, self-deprecating, and to never, never, talk about money, unless to mention what a huge bargain I got on something. This puts me something at odds with my sisters-in-law, lovely people, but Not British (they are Slovak & Slovenian) They do tend to be loud, unafraid of drama, and a bit flashy. They in turn find me rather dull...they don't "get" subtle.
Fascinating post. I'm with Jill Ann and the rest, what bothers me most is an inflated sense of entitlement, obliviousness to others around one (e.g. letting a door smack shut in the face of the person behind you, having a convo on the cell while conducting a transaction with another person), chronic lateness, attention-seeking behavior.
ReplyDeleteBTW, I revere the British "stiff upper lip." I think we (as a culture) could do with a bit more of it, frankly. And Self Deprecation, as long as it doesn't manifest as false humility.
I do too, I didn't inherit it at all, I have what we might call a "European temperament"
Deletemay I add "not pushing a chair back to the table" when someone stands up and leaves a table. uaghh.
DeleteOr "not rinsing the sink after pouring the coffee dregs of an empty cup into the sink".
I guess my bête noire would be being smug.
Love it and agree with all your bêtes noires. An elevated sense of entitlement and self worth with no just cause might just rank #1. Must admit, however, that a self deprecating sense of humor is quite appealing!!
ReplyDeleteI will chime in and say to copy Deja Pseu's post right here. Agree with ALL of it.
ReplyDeleteYour blog is so charming and elegant! So glad to have found you! =)
ReplyDeletepinkchampagnefashion.blogspot.com
I also really dislike mean, unkind, impatient people. Add loud to that mix and in my opinion, you have a monster. I don't like people who feel that everyone else is just in their way and that others should just make way for them, for example on the roads. I don't like it when someone steals my parking space. It happened to me and I couldn't believe it. At least he felt some degree of shame because he couldn't get out of his car and into the shops quick enough.
ReplyDeleteTracy.
Tracy: Loud people are awful and loud women the worst of all.
DeleteOh, me too.... I am always on time and hate when others are late. I once read that people who are chronically late think it's o.k. because they feel they are more important then those they keep waiting. xo
ReplyDeleteYou know when people tell you something and you never forget it – I can't forget the party where a co-worker twice my age looked at me, surrounded by others, and told me I should stop hiding my light under a bushel.
ReplyDeleteI never thought of myself being self deprecating. Truth is he was right. In my case it has to do with my older sister, I (subconsciously) always fear I might hurt when I am important, more important than her. Dates back to Day 1, when I was there, the new born baby sister and she stopped being the center of the family.
Which leads to the question: who is Great Britains older sister?
On tardiness: this is going to be my New Year's resolution 2013. This year's slot was already full with "no more online-time past 10pm". Whenever I get a glimpse of being on time, it feels truly phantastic. Pure luxury. I don't know why I don't want to experience this heavenly feeling more often.
Have a nice day! I am almost sure, you being a windbag entertains your friends no end.
I think you are right about flashing the cash is "non you". London has changed so much since my youth now it seems to be all about glitz and flashiness and as for keeping people waiting and being late don't even get me started on the subject! My mother used to say it was stealing somebody else's time.
ReplyDeleteI have very few pet peeves.... I guess I just don't give a damn:)
ReplyDeleteBonnie, Canada
"Discretion about wealth and worldly success was the order of the day."
ReplyDeleteThis used to be so true in the American South. For one thing, the Civil War reduced that part of the country to a state of colonialism from which it has only recently escaped. People who bragged about money, or even talked about it for that matter, were considered boorish. I still cringe when the topic comes up in conversation.
Tardiness is also a pet peeve as is being a pontificating bore.
Elizabeth
This is a great post, as always! I'm with you about tardiness. I'm especially annoyed when the same people are consistently tardy; it just seems deliberate.
ReplyDeleteRynetta: oh I know, it makes me want to wring their neck.
DeleteYikes, think I may be batting 1000 on your dislikes list. See, I'm even unfashionably late leaving my comment! XXOO
ReplyDeleteI have no recollection of what I wrote. I drank 'til 2am, got up at 5:30am, and then another cocktail event tonight.
ReplyDeleteI could smell the gin soaked tweed from here!
DeleteOh you've got mister handsome back as your icon.
I just watched the PBS special about Prince Charles' gardens at Highgrove and was struck, as I always am, with his self depricating modesty...something I've always admired in the British as much as I loathe the opposite in other nationalities...American included. When one monologues and pontificates in a long winded, patronizing, boasting fashion...it makes my skin crawl, as well as make my eyes glaze over...false martyrdom does the same.
ReplyDeleteHere's to manners, civility, and gentlemanly and ladylike behavior...I'm hoping Downton helps a bit with hypnotising people into such behaviours...at least enough to eliminate the unwanted ones.
xo J~
everytime i read your blogs, i feel like (seriously) im watching the work of a genius. your thought process is a bit brilliant and mad... and I LOVE it. :)
ReplyDeletenow, on to human behavior that makes me angry: eating crisps in quiet public spaces, smacking when eating and name-dropping. the first two make me mad... the latter just removes the potential for me to take someone seriously.
the other thing that irks me... is snotty anonymous comments like the one you got above. if you want to say, leave your name. :)